The Australian Tax Office is now very active in recovering $52B owed by Australian businesses. In this episode Olga Koskie from Tax Assure outlines the steps business owners need to take now to get on top of their outstanding ATO debt, before they lose control and suffer the very dramatic consequences of not taking action.
Olga Koskie from Tax Assure updates us on the ATO's plan to recover outstanding tax debts owed by Australian businesses.
Post covid19 the ATO is now actively chasing $52B in outstanding business tax debt.
"The ATO has had a huge public shift and an internal shift that they're back to an active collection mode."
If you're carrying ATO debt (that's been around longer than the last few months) and have treated them as a financier over recent years you're likely now in the firing line to be chased down
The consequences of not actively managing this debt down, in conjunction with the ATO, are dramatic e.g. Director Penalty Notices, garnishing of bank accounts, statutory demands, and even bankruptcy.
In this episode Olga talks about;
"If you don't do anything, they won't put you on a payment plan. They will initiate recovery action against you."
Michael (00:01.469)
Welcome in to Small Business Banter, edition 145. Really pleased to welcome in Olga Kosky. How you going this morning, Olga?
Olga Koskie (00:02.158)
Welcome to Small Business Banter, edition 145. Really pleased to welcome in Olga Kosky. How are going this morning, Olga? I'm well, thank you. Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure. We're going to be talking ATO debt, which is a topic that is probably a...
Michael (00:13.689)
It's a pleasure. We're going to be talking ATO debt, which is a topic that is probably on the minds of lot of owners, certainly that you talk to and that I talk to. it seems like over the last couple of months, there's been a lot of media and press about the ATO really starting to go hard and recover money's outstanding, the leniency offered through COVID.
Olga Koskie (00:31.27)
months has been a lot of media and press about the ATO.
Michael (00:43.161)
is over and now it's if you've got that kind of debt you need to you need to to tackle it front on I think is the the nub of it. what do you give us a little bit of your background Algorod I know you've you're the founder and principal of Tax Assure but tell us about yourself and Tax Assure.
Olga Koskie (00:44.018)
Yep.
Olga Koskie (00:52.654)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So I was a commercial litigation lawyer for over 16 years. Some say I've left the dark side come to the positive side. And I got brought in. have two business partners to I own and built the Victorian part of Taxashore.
and now do a lot of work nationally, including Brisbane, Victoria, Tasmania. And a lot of these sort of discussions with people like yourself, a lot of public speaking, a lot of different events, because we want the whole world to know that there are solutions. So exactly what you were saying, the ATO has had a huge public shift and an internal shift that they're back to an active collection mode. So it isn't a matter of if the ATO come knocking.
it's when and the pro -activeness and what can be done to save businesses. I personally have a huge passion that all businesses should have access to all the different solutions that are out there. So the more that we can spread the word of how we can help and to get businesses back on track, that's what we're here to do.
Michael (02:08.859)
And so the solutions, there's something between doing absolutely nothing and trying to pay it all out if you can't afford to do that. So somewhere maybe through there, there's a payment plan or a negotiation or a solution of some kind.
Olga Koskie (02:15.501)
Yeah.
Olga Koskie (02:25.43)
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, very much so. So the ATO consider compliance not having no debt, but exactly as you mentioned, being in an active payment plan. And the ATO have had quite an aggressive, some would say what we would call a dialer campaign where they ring people and demand that a certain payment plan be entered into. However, where we come in is getting people affordable payment plans, payment plans that are sustainable.
and ones that match their cash flow with no upfront payments. So there are a number of different ways that you can cut that cookie to get the outcome. And it absolutely doesn't have to be paying in full. And it doesn't need large upfront payments to get you back into that compliant position.
Michael (03:14.461)
So if you're doing nothing, the ATO and you're on their list and we'll talk about who's on the list and why, if you don't do anything, they'll set some kind of payment plan and then you're really stuck if it doesn't work with your business's cashflow or you.
Olga Koskie (03:21.696)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (03:32.64)
Well, it's a bit worse than that. If you don't do anything, they won't put you on a payment plan. They will initiate recovery action against you. So some of the enforcement and some of their recovery action, if you're not on a payment plan, can include a director penalty notice, which makes directors personally liable for the company's debt, a garnishing notice so they can take money directly out of your bank account.
a statutory demand so they can wind your company up or credit reporting so they can list you as a default on a credit reporting agency. So the ramifications of doing nothing are huge and very, very serious for businesses and also individuals.
Michael (04:15.997)
So it very clearly, you might've had it and lots of owners have a company structure with this idea that there's a bit of separation or protection. But when you start talking about making the director personally liable for outstanding taxes, outstanding superannuation, that all goes out the door, right? You're running a small business and you're on the hook. So yeah, it's dramatic.
Olga Koskie (04:31.522)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (04:39.052)
Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah.
Olga Koskie (04:43.864)
So individuals can now be personally liable for super debt, JST debt and PAYG debt. So I think that old adage that, know, it's all in the company, it'll all be all right. There's huge consequences in a number of different circumstances where people can become personally liable for this ATO debt. I think, as you mentioned, during COVID, the ATO were quite lenient.
But the issue is now that there is very much active enforcement that old debt is being recovered. And there's also a significant portion of interest that's also added on to the debt. And that's calculated at 11 .34 % compounded daily at the moment. So there's significant consequences for ignoring this debt.
Michael (05:34.013)
So what, I think there's something like $34 billion that the ATO is owed from small businesses, which at some point made them one of the biggest lenders to small business in the country. I'm not sure how that, but 34 billions, know.
Olga Koskie (05:42.52)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (05:49.582)
Yeah. So they don't like that term. The ATO don't like being called a lender. And one of the specific things in the press releases that they've put out recently is that they are no longer and should no longer and they never really were. But pop culture considered them a cheap small business bank at 11 .34 % compounded daily. That is not a cheap lend.
Michael (05:56.987)
Hmm. Hmm.
Michael (06:14.759)
compounded daily. Yeah.
Olga Koskie (06:18.222)
And the other thing is if you're not in a payment plan, they're not really a lender or a bank because of all those recovery actions that you are open to and the danger in just leaving that debt sit there. So I think there generally needs to be a change in perception and a change in mindset within the community that you can just leave the debt there and everything will be all right because it's not the case anymore.
Michael (06:41.317)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's fine. I mean, it's a lot of money outstanding that is owed. So how they kind of position that and consider themselves is up to them. It's a large chunk of money. What's it made up of? If you look at a typical small business, what would be a typical scenario that you see the type of debt and the levels of debt that are owed?
Olga Koskie (06:47.562)
Absolutely.
Olga Koskie (06:51.384)
Mm.
Olga Koskie (06:57.166)
What's it made of?
Michael (07:10.119)
back to the ATO.
Olga Koskie (07:12.174)
So we're seeing a mixture of super debt as well as income tax return and what's on the integrated client account which is often PAYG debt and GST debt. So we're seeing a mix of effectively everything that a business owes. There isn't one particular portion. The average size of the debt for people that we used to help would be around three, 400 ,000.
Now we are seeing an average size debt of around 800 to probably a million for a number of our clients, which makes a lot of sense given the level of the debt. it's doubled. And also given that during that COVID period, a lot of people weren't paying the debt back. And so that makes sense that the debt has doubled. But because of the recovery action and doubling the size, it has become very quickly a huge issue.
Michael (08:06.077)
Yeah, yeah, 11, I was trying to do some maths on compounding daily, the effective annual rate. So now for the 800 ,000 is probably maybe potentially at the bigger end of small business. If you've got a business turning over,
Olga Koskie (08:12.416)
I know it's a lot, hey, yeah.
Olga Koskie (08:27.363)
Yes.
Michael (08:31.837)
you know, a million dollars or something, a couple of million dollars, which is there's a lot of those. Does that give them any protection or any cover from recovery action? if the, if the debt's 50 ,000 or a hundred thousand dollars, or is it just, it's the same principle that there's money owing for super for GST for income tax. At some point you will, you will get that call.
Olga Koskie (08:45.646)
$50 ,000.
Olga Koskie (08:59.729)
Yes, so at some point you will get that call. However, there's also a different raft of things that impact on that. So when we were talking about whether the ATO will report you to a credit reporting agency, if the debt is below 100 ,000, they won't. So any debt below 100 ,000, you won't get reported to a credit reporting agency. However, we're seeing recovery action on all size of debts.
The other thing we're also seeing is sometimes people do try to differentiate the core debt to the interest component. So they might say, well, I only owe 100 ,000 in core debt and the rest of its interest. So the ATO won't come after me. Or we had one client where they only owed interest and they didn't owe any core debt. So they thought that they were safe, but they actually received a garnashe notice. So the only debt left was 100 ,000 of interest.
and the ATO garnished their account to recover the interest back. So the ATO don't differentiate between the interest owed and the core debt. They see it as the whole amount is owing unless an application is done, which we do a lot of, as to why the interest should be remitted. So I think that's another myth that was a legacy from COVID that you can just ring up and say, I've paid my debt, can I please have the interest back?
That's not how it works now. There's specific legal practice guidelines that need to be included in an application that then have to be considered by the ATO as to whether that should be remitted, but it's not an automatic given.
Michael (10:39.057)
Yeah, a couple of things there. I'd love to just quickly explain what a garnasheed notice is, if you've had the benefit of the money for years and years, and so I can see the logic of saying, well, the interest is due and payable.
Olga Koskie (10:43.426)
Yeah, absolutely.
Olga Koskie (10:57.868)
Yeah, and it's to even it out for, well, it's a couple of reasons. One, to even it out for taxpayers that are paying on time and that everyone should be on the same playing field. And it's also very much to counteract that, it's a cheap small business bank. You just don't have to pay, which is not the approach that the ATO or the government, for that matter, really want to instil in the community.
Michael (11:21.813)
If someone hasn't heard of a Ganeshhi order, can you just explain what that is? Because it's quite far reaching.
Olga Koskie (11:29.678)
It is, they're quite scary and the ATO have very specific powers. So usually for a garnishie order, you would need a court order. The ATO don't need a court order. So they can issue a garnishie notice that effectively on a bank account, I've seen it on an FPOS machine. And when money is coming in or on a bank account, they intercept that money or they send a special notice to the bank and they're able to take the money out.
So it has huge consequences for businesses and individuals. That case study I mentioned before, $77 ,000 got deducted out of that person's bank account overnight on a weekend pursuant to the garnishing notice, and that was all interest. So the accountant had done an application to get that interest remitted. The application was rejected.
The garnishing notice was issued within two days of the rejection and the money was immediately taken. So we got engaged to redo another application, which we were successful and were able to get that money back.
Michael (12:35.229)
Okay. It might also be worth just explaining what a director's, I'm sorry, I've forgotten the, director, yeah, DPN.
Olga Koskie (12:44.076)
A director penalty notice? Yep. So again, there's certain circumstances in which an individual, a director, can be personally liable for a company's super, PAYG and GST. And so what the ATO are doing, and these are automated now, so a computer can't read notes. So a lot of people are paying voluntary amounts to the ATO.
but that's not enough to stop some of this recovery action because it's being done automated from the ATO. So when a director penalty notice is sent, again, that's another legal notice that's putting the director on notice that they are personally liable for a portion of those debts or all of those debts. They have 21 days to pay it in full or wind the company up. Otherwise, the ATO can bring
further action so they could sue that director for that money. They're the only ways to make a director penalty notice disappear. However, in practice, if we get the company into a payment arrangement, the ATO won't take any further enforcement action against the director. So we can still help. So if there is a DPN and the company goes into a payment arrangement,
So sometimes I say the payment arrangements are secret herbs and spices. You'll hear me talk about it constantly because that's how we can protect businesses and stop this further action.
Michael (14:12.957)
Yeah, okay. So this is the start of a new financial year. We're only early into financial year 25. So I think irrespective of that, a lot of directors of companies would know that they've got outstanding debt to the ATO.
Olga Koskie (14:30.658)
Yes, and most of it's old. So most of the time it's more than six months old, the debt we're seeing.
Michael (14:38.191)
Okay. So what's the next step? I think there is an overarching understanding that you gotta pay your bank debt first, but the ATO has been there in the background. I've seen it on a lot of balance sheets that I've looked at. But now, let's just say...
Olga Koskie (14:54.626)
Yep, yep.
Olga Koskie (15:01.09)
Yes.
Michael (15:05.179)
you're aware that you've got this debt, particularly if it's old, what do you do next? Is it talk to your accountant? it talk to the ATO? Just talk me through the best way to get on the front foot.
Olga Koskie (15:17.4)
So I think the first tip is absolutely get on the front foot. So don't wait for recovery action, because each one of these recovery actions that I mentioned make it much harder. So the foremost tip would be deal with it. Absolutely face the thing you don't want to do and deal with it. There's a couple of different ways you can deal with it. If it is small debt and there's not a lot of complications, then absolutely your accountant could help.
or you could look at doing it yourself.
Michael (15:47.997)
There is a line that you can call, but this is when it's, we're talking about well less, less than 100 ,000.
Olga Koskie (15:58.99)
I would say less than 100. I'm a big believer in specialists. I think running a business these days is really complicated. I think we only need to look at the world of AI and see how much things have changed. So I sort of say your plumber could probably lay tiles, but a tile is going to be much, much better at laying tiles than your plumber. So where we come in, it's a bit like your accountant is your GP and looks after your general health.
and we're a specialist. So what we see is we get much longer payment plans for people. We don't do an upfront for the payment plan and it matches cash flow. But certainly it is a conversation you could try to have yourself or you could ask your accountant or you could engage a specialist like us to assist depending on the complexity, the level of non -compliance, the level of debt, whether you've had rejected applications, whether you've had defaulted applications.
or whether you've received any legal notices from the ATO yet.
Michael (17:00.807)
Yeah, cause they often have this discussion that you've, and I love that analogy with the GP. You have, you have advisors you've had for a long time and, but often you've got to ask or you've got to validate that in this particular scenario for this particular reason, are they the best advisor? And I'm sure you, you probably get lots of inquiries from accountants in turn, rather than just direct from the client because even, you know, the
Olga Koskie (17:06.925)
Yep.
Olga Koskie (17:26.658)
Yes.
Michael (17:30.481)
you recognize at times that you need a specialist. And you just went through a number of, if they've had previous applications knocked back and other reasons like that, it just makes it that much more complicated to move forward.
Olga Koskie (17:38.668)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (17:43.628)
Yeah, absolutely. We work with a lot of accountants and the relief that they do have someone else now dealing with it is huge. When you look at what accountants are expected to know, so all of the tax laws, the compliance, the regulation, the lodgements, we don't do any of that. So I think it's quite difficult to expect one advisor to be a specialist in so many different areas, as you would say. It's very, very difficult.
I've got a team of 12 people and we're dealing with nothing but debt all day every day. So when something changes, we know that it's changed, we know what works. So it's hard when someone does a small piece of what we're doing all day every day to expect them to get the same outcome.
Michael (18:28.135)
So, and with the work you do and you're doing that day in day out. So you mentioned payment plans can be without necessarily a big chunk upfront.
Olga Koskie (18:32.61)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (18:39.276)
We would never do a chunk upfront unless they were already on the legal part.
Michael (18:44.266)
but also match to the serviceability of the business.
Olga Koskie (18:48.578)
Yep. Yeah, so a couple examples there are we were helping a company that lodged a number of R &D grants in a year and had a significant refund. So what we were able to do was tailor a payment plan that had small amounts through certain periods of the year and then large chunks to repay the debt when the R &D grant refund was due back. And another example was we were helping a landscape gardener.
and he was actually from Tasmania. So there's a significant wet season. And again, his payment plan was tailored around when his work ebbed and flowed and he was able to generally predict. So we were able to tailor it that there were different payments during dry season when his business was very, very good compared to the wet season. So it's not just a cookie cutter, let's divide the debt by three years and hope for the best.
Every single matter is very bespoke on what's going to work best for the client to keep them compliant and keep them on track.
Michael (19:51.771)
I think that makes a whole lot of sense, but it means you perhaps in partnership with the accountant really do need to understand the business. And this is one of the requirements of running a business, not necessarily doing it yourself, but using your accountant or to help you start to understand what your cashflow cycle is like. There's kind of no excuse now for not understanding that because with all the online accounting packages and
Olga Koskie (20:16.835)
Yes.
Michael (20:22.374)
You can go back and do all sorts of analysis to see when and how your income comes in and what other commitments you've got. There's kind of no reason to not better understand it and to get caught out.
Olga Koskie (20:34.764)
Yeah, and then to use that as well. So if we have that data and we have that knowledge, our applications aren't just focused on the numbers. So sometimes people say to me, isn't it boring just dealing with tax debt all day? But we're actually dealing with people, we're dealing with humans, we're dealing with what's happening in their business, what's happening in their lives. And all of our submissions are detailed applications that are really focusing on the people and the story. And the numbers are only a small part of that.
Michael (21:03.023)
Yeah. It's like good quality bankers will want to understand the story behind the numbers. And I do a lot of work with owners to come up with a sense of what their business might be worth if they were to sell, where they might be able to improve it. And it's all about the story behind the numbers, but you've got to get the numbers right. And you can now, there's no reason you can't get your numbers right. So...
Olga Koskie (21:08.748)
Yep, absolutely.
Olga Koskie (21:19.938)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (21:24.365)
Yeah.
Michael (21:31.965)
but it also, I'd say it sounds like with the ATO, it, if you get a submission divide, divide by 36 months and hope for the best versus this business is seasonal or it has, it gets chunky lots of money later in the year because of a tax refund, raw and deep tax. Then as you say, we're all people, there's people behind this and they go, well, you've, you've actually put some effort in.
Olga Koskie (21:44.805)
See you.
Michael (22:01.103)
you understand what's going on. seems to us you understand what's going on to your business. I'm sure that the ATO want to support as many businesses as they can through, provided they understand what is proposed and they're confident the business owner and their advisors understand that they're going to be able to reasonably comply.
Olga Koskie (22:11.31)
they can't through provided they...
Olga Koskie (22:24.366)
Well, one of the big factors that the ATO are considering at the moment is the ongoing viability of a business. So exactly what you're saying, how has it got into the debt? Will that continue to happen? The ATO want to draw a line in the sand to prevent that debt and that huge 32 billion number increasing. So one of the things is how is the business viable? Looking at the ongoing viability, what's changed? What's the business done?
to not get into the same debt and to be able to repay it. So the submissions that are worded in exactly what you were saying around what's going on in the business, understanding the business, understanding the numbers, understanding what needs to change, understanding what's happened is a huge part of their consideration with these applications. If you're just giving them a P &L and a cash flow, then you won't get anywhere near the same result with an application for a payment plan.
Michael (23:16.861)
Yeah. Yeah. So pretty, if we talk about the other side of inaction and I mean, if you, if you put together a well -thought out payment plan and things disrupt the business, well, that's, that's business. you, you know, you've done what you reasonably could, but not doing something. What, what are the, we kind of, you talked about them at the start, but no doubt you've seen some, some cases where things
haven't been addressed and action is taken. that's, it parallels with, I often see owners coming in wanting to sell their business tomorrow. it's not even a matter of just reducing the price because you've got to find somebody interested in that business in that location.
Olga Koskie (23:48.695)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (24:00.6)
Yes.
You can.
Michael (24:13.265)
at that particular point in time, it's just, leaves you no option. what are some of the, you know, what we're trying to do here, say to owners, you know, you've got some debt that needs to be tackled or your money outstanding to the ATO. If you don't, what are some of the more dramatic and you know, outcomes you've seen that we want to stop other owners getting into?
Olga Koskie (24:34.562)
Yes. So if you ignore a DPN, I've seen a number and an increase in matters in which the ATO issue a summons. So they sue the directors personally. If you ignore that action, they're then issuing bankruptcy notices against directors. So there's a number of steps and a lot of ignoring before a bankruptcy notice will get issued. But we have seen that happen.
In relation to a company, we've also seen a huge uptake in the numbers of what's called a statutory demand being issued to a company. So if a statutory demand's been issued, you've got 21 days to pay the debt or enter into an arrangement. If you don't, the ATO can then bring wind -up proceedings. Again, if anyone's looking at the wind -up list, there's a list that's published every day, and the ATO is a significant contributor to that list.
And there's a huge amount of businesses that are now being wound up by the ATO, which means that they're then putting the business into an event of insolvency and the director effectively loses control over that business and it goes through an insolvency event. And then the third one, which we have touched on, which isn't quite as bad, but can have huge effects is these garnishing notices. So money disappears out of your account.
So they're all very, very significant action. There are things that can be done, but the further stages it gets, the further down track it gets, the worse and the harder it is to pull it back.
Michael (26:06.342)
So I assume one of the things you're talking about or referencing there is working with a bank to shore up, I've seen some of the business banks.
refinance or assist businesses, but if you had a director's penalty notice or sort court orders of some kind hanging over your head, it's going to make it really hard for a bank to even consider.
Olga Koskie (26:25.208)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (26:35.798)
Yeah, it will make it very hard for a major to consider. You're sort of then looking at second, third tier lenders or alternative private lenders. But if you've got a court order or any recovery action, it'll be very difficult for a major to lend to you at that point.
Michael (26:50.961)
Yeah, yeah. But I think again, the message is earlier is better. some of the, I know, know, Judo Bank has been pretty helpful. Some of the new FinTech lenders.
Olga Koskie (26:56.225)
Absolutely.
Olga Koskie (27:03.33)
Bluestone, yeah, Bluestone and RedZed are normally very helpful when there's tax debt. And again, it's finding, if we go back to the specialists, it's finding, I would say, the right broker in those circumstances. There are institutions that will lend to either pay out the debt or will lend while you still have debt to release equity. But again, it's using the right specialists to help you. I think if you just walked into, say, the foyer of ANZ, you might not get very far. But if you've got the right people helping you.
Michael (27:07.545)
Yeah.
Michael (27:14.662)
Right.
Michael (27:31.363)
It's a lovely foyer but you wouldn't get very far.
Olga Koskie (27:32.888)
Probably, if you can find a branch open or even a branch. But again, if we go back to specialists and how they help, think that's the other key is both dealing with this issue and finding the right people to help you.
Michael (27:36.615)
Yeah. Yeah.
Michael (27:48.049)
Yeah, and if the banks will address it or look at it in the same way, which is tell me about your business, wherever you've been, but as a indicator of where you're going. yeah.
Olga Koskie (27:54.594)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (27:59.936)
And that viability. And again, those things about where you've been and where you're going is very similar, like I mentioned, to what the ATO are looking at. They're looking at your history of compliance. What's been going on? Have you been compliant? Are your lodgements up to date? Have your lodgements been late? Have you been paying up to date? How many refused applications have you had? How many defaulted applications? And then, as you said, where are you going? What have you done to change it? Is the business viable?
Michael (28:21.574)
Yeah.
Olga Koskie (28:28.578)
Why won't this happen again?
Michael (28:30.204)
Yeah, yeah, so I think that's the message is loud and clear and we don't want forced exits, credit issues for directors.
Olga Koskie (28:41.196)
No.
Olga Koskie (28:44.908)
And often these are viable businesses. Often they're very good businesses. People just need a bit of breathing space. Something has happened, whether it's still a legacy from COVID, whether it's the rising cost of living, the cost of materials. We see a lot of illness in businesses, in directors, and things going slightly off the rails, no fault of the business really. And it's providing them with that time because they are viable and they can keep trading.
Michael (29:01.327)
Yeah, yeah.
Olga Koskie (29:13.368)
They just need the support to continue on to get back on track.
Michael (29:17.349)
Yeah. And look, I think, and it comes back to just that those few key things of using the right advisor, but, and I talk about this a lot. It's being on top of your numbers. What do your numbers mean? It's not just do your tax return. Yeah. And park it and then get on with, you you got to manage your business day to day, but you've also just
Olga Koskie (29:34.668)
And hope for
Michael (29:43.258)
Use some of the technology and so I don't even call it technology. It's just so straightforward to have a scent, you know, a regular update from somebody, your accountant or your business coach about what the numbers are telling you and, and, and everyone knows if they got debt, you know, accumulating.
Olga Koskie (29:43.656)
some of the technology. I don't even call it technology, it's just so straightforward.
Olga Koskie (29:54.36)
business coach about what the numbers are.
Olga Koskie (30:00.524)
And it is scarier, I understand that it's super scary, but I think where we're at now is the consequences of ignoring it are worse. So it really needs to be dealt with.
Michael (30:11.099)
Yeah. I'll go, look, I think that's been an excellent punchy insight to, to, you know, an emerging issue. It's just, it's a big issue for a lot of business owners. And we're just saying kind of get on the front foot. So if someone wanted to touch base with you to talk about it, or some accountants that wanted to get in contact, how do they do that?
Olga Koskie (30:21.786)
Yeah.
Olga Koskie (30:27.182)
So if someone wanted to touch base with you...
Olga Koskie (30:36.406)
So either email or phone. My details are on the website on LinkedIn. Tax Assure's website has the details. I'm happy to give you my mobile number if you want me to do that now.
Michael (30:46.907)
Yeah, you know, no, no, no, no, we'll put in the put in the links, you know, to the show notes, but it's tax assured .com .au. Yeah, yeah. So that I'm sure people that'll resonate with people and they can can find you any other reflections that you think before worth sharing before you go, because I you're in there in the in the trenches.
Olga Koskie (30:50.53)
Yes.
Olga Koskie (30:54.732)
Yes, that's correct.
Olga Koskie (31:08.406)
Yeah, I think I'm...
I think there's a couple of things. think one, business owners need to be kind to themselves. I think running a business is really difficult now, so I don't want people to ever be embarrassed or ashamed that they've got debt or how they've got to this point. It is everywhere. It has been a hard few years and there is help out there with no judgement, so don't feel bad about that.
And as I said, just please be proactive because it's not a matter of, well, if I don't lodge the ATO, won't know about me. Or if I don't talk to them, nothing bad will happen. The ATO is in active enforcement collection mode. So please take that action now before it does get worse.
Michael (31:53.373)
Yeah, look, I think that's a really positive note to finish on particularly that doesn't matter how you got there. It's something you are going to have to deal with. And this is one of the struggles of small business. It is lonely. can have five, 10, 20 staff, but it can still be terribly lonely without you bear all the responsibility and you have the burden of just about everything and going home and talking about it.
Olga Koskie (32:08.546)
Yep.
Olga Koskie (32:23.158)
Yeah, it's not the same. And I can guarantee we've pretty much heard everything. I often get asked, is this the worst one? I'm like, no, this is not the worst on my desk. So it's unlikely you're ever going to be the worst that's on my desk. And we're here to help.
Michael (32:23.319)
is not always ideal.
Michael (32:37.425)
Yeah, good on you Olga. Look, thanks so much for your time and your energy and input and it's been excellent. Thanks so much.
Olga Koskie (32:47.234)
Thanks for having me, Michael.