In this episode, Michael and Elise Balsillie (Head of Thryv ANZ) reveal why complex technology stacks are driving small business burnout instead of creating freedom. Discover actionable strategies to simplify your systems, solve your biggest operational headaches, and build a profitable business that doesn't rely entirely on you.
Overcoming Small Business Burnout: Why You Need Simpler Systems, Not More Tech
Welcome to another episode of the Owner to Owner Podcast. If you’ve ever wondered how to reduce small business burnout, the answer often starts with simplifying your small business tech stack. Are you feeling overwhelmed by the endless apps, subscriptions, and communication channels required to run your business today? You aren't alone.
In this episode, Michael sits down with Elise Balsillie, Head of Thryv ANZ, to unpack why modern technology often adds complexity instead of freedom for small business owners. They explore the best systems for service based businesses and dive deep into the burnout epidemic. You'll learn exactly how to build a business that runs without you, which is the ultimate key to reducing owner dependency for business sale and preserving your day-to-day sanity.
Whether you want to learn about using AI for small business marketing, improving local visibility for contractors, or leveraging Thryv for small business growth, this conversation covers the practical steps to get your time back.
In this episode, you’ll discover:
Episode Chapters:
00:00 – The modern small business trap: Why tech promises freedom but delivers pressure
05:22 – The "mishmash" tech stack and how to solve your 3 a.m. problem
09:06 – How Thryv helps service businesses grow (featuring the Booth Contracting case study)
18:37 – Surprising data from the Thryv Business Index: Burnout, rising costs, and wearing too many hats
25:29 – Reducing owner dependency to improve saleability and transition out of the day-to-day
30:22 – Building AI-powered marketing systems that outlast the owner
38:24 – The future of online discovery and how AI is changing local search
43:30 – Elise’s final advice for overwhelmed owners and how to take the first step
Michael (01:20):
Technology promises small business owners more time, better systems, and a business that's less dependent on them. Yet, Thryv's latest research found that 45% of Australian small business owners have considered stepping away because of burnout or workload pressures.
My guest today is Elise Balsillie, Head of Thryv in Australia and New Zealand. Thryv is a US-owned corporation, and today we're going to explore why tech often fails to deliver the freedom it promises. We'll discuss what genuine business modernization looks like, the line between that and making your business more profitable and less owner-dependent, and how this plays into the future of the business when you decide it's time to move on.
Welcome, Elise. Thanks for joining the Owner to Owner Podcast.
Elise Balsillie (02:14):
Thank you for having me, Michael.
Michael (02:15):
You've spent at least two decades working with small businesses. There is a lot of tech available today, but there's also a lot of noise, pressure to keep up, and competition around what you have and don't have. Why do so many owners still feel overwhelmed?
Elise Balsillie (02:32):
I think the world of running a small business has gotten much more complicated. Rewinding back to when I started in the early 2000s, life was simpler. You put an ad in the local paper, put some branding on your truck, had some business cards and a carbon-copy order book, and you were on your way. Life was fine. Suddenly, with the proliferation of the internet, new technology, and now AI, there are so many different channels that small business owners need to manage. There are emails, WhatsApp, text messages, and Messenger. People expect you to be on 24/7.
Gone are the days when they would contact you at 9:00 AM about doing a quote the next day. Now, they're messaging at 8:00 PM and contacting multiple other providers simultaneously. Business owners are really feeling that pressure. It’s complicated, right down to things like ratings and reviews.
People are talking about you across a multitude of social media platforms, leaving reviews on Google or product sites. The sheer number of places you need to be found and accessible is daunting for a lot of small business owners.
Michael (03:47):
It's a long way from the old days. I still have a couple of close friends who run very successful trades-based businesses, and their original model was just a listing in the Yellow Pages. There was always a bit of a laugh about naming your business "AA Something" just to jack up your rankings. Back then, if the phone rang and they were busy, they’d just let it go. If they needed work, they’d pick it up. It wasn't that long ago, but the systems you can have now to capture leads and information are wholly different, aren't they?
Elise Balsillie (04:29):
It is completely different. I have children in their twenties, and looking at how they communicate with businesses, they don't pick up the phone anymore. Everything is done digitally. The sheer volume of incoming messages is overwhelming for many business owners. And a lot of that administrative work still takes place at the dining room table at the end of the day, especially for trades businesses.
They're out on the tools during the day, and then they come home to follow up on unpaid invoices, schedule tomorrow's jobs, and order stock. There is a lot to manage, and the burden of those layers is really starting to get to them. You can see that in the survey results regarding burnout, which is alarming because small business is the backbone of the community. Having that many small business owners considering walking away is a significant issue.
Michael (05:31):
It's a real problem. We’re going to talk about the available solutions, but it's also a mindset issue. If you've been doing business a particular way for a long time, it can be hard to change. If we assume there is a lot of tech available, maybe not all business owners are taking full advantage of it.
What do you think are the common reasons? Is it bad implementation, bad advice, unrealistic expectations placed on the tech, or not enough focus on setting up the business to actually use it?
Elise Balsillie (06:04):
It's a little bit of all of those things. Many business owners dabble in different pieces of technology. Most use prevalent accounting software that works great and already has AI embedded in it. But with the avalanche of new AI and tech platforms, a lot of small business owners end up with a mishmash of subscription services.
They sign up thinking these tools will solve their biggest problems, but they actually just create more complexity and process gaps across the board.
Michael (06:59):
Exactly. These tools can look very exciting in isolation, but when you try to implement them and connect them to something else, they don't quite work together.
There are solutions for that, but it just adds to the craziness and frustration when you thought you were getting a neat, packaged solution.
Elise Balsillie (07:21):
And we have to remember, these business owners aren't marketers—they're plumbers, for example. While there are tips and tricks to get marketing software working perfectly in the background, they often don't know where to start.
They know the world is changing and that great tools exist, but it's about finding the right solution and the right support. They need to ensure they're using tools that genuinely improve their revenue and customer experience, rather than just wasting money on things that offer little return.
Michael (08:00):
I heard you say something really insightful recently: we all have a long list of things we could do to make our businesses better. That's a given.
But trying to go after all of them at once is fraught with danger. It takes discipline to step back and pick the single biggest, most burning problem to tackle first.
Elise Balsillie (08:28):
Absolutely. I always say, tackle the thing that keeps you awake at 3:00 AM. Start there and solve that problem first. Because if we can get you a good night's sleep, life is going to be so much easier.
Michael (08:42):
Yeah, and get a bit of momentum going. Don't just default to the low-hanging fruit if there's a burning issue keeping you awake.
At a high level, Thryv is a US company that took over Sensis, the Yellow Pages, which is an institution in Australia. What are the key services and products that Thryv offers small businesses today?
Elise Balsillie (09:12):
The essence of what we do hasn't changed over my 20-plus year journey in the business. We support small to medium businesses across Australia and New Zealand in getting found, generating leads, and improving their operations.
Today, we're one of the leading AI-powered marketing platforms. We help hundreds of thousands of customers globally win customers and drive repeat business. We also help solve those operational issues that can become incredibly cumbersome.
People spend huge amounts of money on marketing campaigns without having any idea what's actually working. Our goal is to partner with business owners to target their biggest problems and, to your point, get them a really good night's sleep.
Michael (10:10):
Are your core customers location-based businesses? Small retail? Trades? Who do you work with most effectively?
Elise Balsillie (10:18):
The vast majority are service-based businesses: plumbers, electricians, physios, and dentists. Some are brick-and-mortar, while others are out on the road. We partner with many of them from day one—when they are just one person in a van—and continue to support them as they grow to over a hundred vans across Australia.
They really are the backbone of the community. There's something magical about working with small businesses because you can tangibly see the impact you're making. Seeing a business thrive, hire more staff, and experience those "aha" moments is an incredibly rewarding place to be.
Michael (11:20):
I always love seeing vans with people proudly wearing their business t-shirts. It's far better to help build a friend's local brand than a massive multinational corporation that doesn't need any more help.
Elise Balsillie (11:42):
It definitely is. I've got a wardrobe full of them!
Michael (11:43):
You mentioned businesses that scale from a single person to hundreds of employees. That must be terribly exciting to track. What was underpinning that growth? Was it about sales, CRM, or really harnessing lead flow?
Elise Balsillie (12:11):
I'll give you a great example. Recently, Andrew Booth from Booth Contracting spoke to our staff in Melbourne. He started his business back in 2015, just him working out of his van, and Thryv was one of his early partners. Based in regional New South Wales, the first step was simply getting him found locally as a top-ranked plumber and gas fitter.
Over the years, we provided marketing software, lead generation, SEO, and website support. As he grew and hired office staff, our platform helped them analyze marketing campaigns and save about 10 hours a week, freeing them up to focus on productive work like chasing unpaid bills. We've partnered with him every step of the way, and he's now a national business working on new mines being built all over the country.
Michael (13:49):
Having him come back and talk to your team is gold.
Hearing it directly from the person who achieved that growth is the best kind of case study you can get.
Elise Balsillie (13:58):
I completely agree. As an organization, the best way for us to learn is to understand the actual impact we make on small business owners.
It helps our team realize how the decisions they make in the office affect a business owner's livelihood on the other side.
Michael (14:22):
Definitely. When you can sit with business owners in their environment—whether on the road or in their shop—it gives you a crucial perspective that grounds the advice and services you offer.
Elise Balsillie (14:54):
Absolutely. To this day, getting out on the road and sitting down with our clients is my favorite part of the job. Just sitting in someone's waiting room and watching the daily operations of their business is far more enlightening than sending an email from the office back home.
Michael (15:30):
Those are rich conversations, and every one of those businesses is full of opportunities to improve or grow. But I want to pivot to the research you completed late last year regarding owner burnout and succession. The findings showed that up to 45% of SMB owners are considering stepping away due to burnout and workload pressures.
Forty percent had begun the process, 29% were thinking about a future date, and 24% hadn't done much yet. The overall number doesn't surprise me given the aging demographic of current owners, but the explicit link to burnout is striking.
Could you talk a little bit about the findings of that research?
Elise Balsillie (17:21):
Definitely. The Thryv Business Index and Consumer Report was a study we conducted across 1,000 small business owners and 1,000 everyday consumers in both Australia and New Zealand, with very similar results in both regions.
The Australian demographic is definitely feeling the pinch right now, especially with economic pressures like the rising cost of goods not matching what consumers are willing to pay. However, despite these pressures, most businesses in Australia are actually growing.
They are cautiously confident for the year ahead. They aren't looking to make highly risky decisions—like a builder taking on a massive new development—because of the uncertainty surrounding supplies and costs.
Michael (18:59):
So instead of growth at all costs, they prefer a smaller, more controllable job?
Elise Balsillie (19:11):
Exactly, growth in a small and sustainable fashion. They are avoiding risky, multi-million-dollar projects with little margin for error. While there is optimism, it’s paired with very conservative business decisions.
Another major factor leading to burnout is that a lot of small business owners are getting back "on the tools." Whether they are a dentist, physio, or construction worker, they're spending more time working in the business to protect their margins.
But the administrative work they were doing previously hasn't gone away; it's just mounting. Add in the red tape and legislative changes, and it's a lot to get their heads around.
Michael (20:46):
Getting back on the tools is a great way to keep control of your business without taking massive risks. Going to work and basically being happy with what you do is a good place to be, rather than chasing the allure of building a massive business and cashing out.
While stats say there are 2.8 million SMEs in Australia, a huge portion are zero-to-four employee setups. For many, scaling back to a controllable level—where you can make a decent living, work fewer hours, and maybe take a Wednesday off to play golf or go surfing—is the ultimate goal.
Elise Balsillie (22:00):
That's exactly it. For a lot of business owners, that was the initial dream: taking Wednesdays off to go surfing or having late starts with the dog. But over time, the reality of running a small business hasn't panned out that way.
And regarding those "zero-employee" businesses, they rarely operate completely alone. It might be a husband opening a personal training studio, but his wife is managing the social media, and his uncle is doing the accounting. It truly takes a village.
Michael (23:30):
You're quite right. Those stats can be misleading; I've seen sole traders managing 20 contractors and turning over millions.
Bringing it back to controllable growth makes sense given the risks. In your research, when people talked about "stepping away," did that mean selling the business or just winding it down?
Elise Balsillie (24:10):
It was a real array of responses. For some who had taken over a family business—stepping into someone else's dream—they were looking to divest and sell the asset. But for others, it just got too hard, and they wanted to shut up shop and walk away entirely.
There's a deeply personal connection to a business, and many owners wrestle with wanting to leave but feeling tied down by the sheer amount of time and energy they’ve invested.
Michael (24:56):
That can be a real weight on the owners. These businesses are vital to their local communities, not just for the services they provide, but because local economies are interconnected.
If one business disappears, it creates a cascading effect.
Elise Balsillie (25:31):
You see it play out at the local coffee shop every morning. The local plumber is sitting down with the electrician, passing each other leads and referrals.
That interconnected relationship across the community is incredibly important.
Michael (25:46):
The burden owners carry is often underappreciated. When they reach a point where they just want out after 30 years, transitioning that business becomes critical.
It takes clear thinking and effort to sell a business or safely wind it down so they can finally get on top of things.
Elise Balsillie (26:31):
Absolutely. Supporting these businesses also means helping them get into a "ready state" so they actually have a sellable asset on the other side.
Ideally, we can spark these conversations before they reach the point of total burnout and simply want to close their doors.
Michael (26:55):
Exactly. When I look at trying to sell a business, the biggest negative is its dependence on the current owner. If the owner is the sole salesperson or the primary ambassador, it leaves a huge gap to fill.
Can owners invest in systems—like better CRM and lead nurturing—that not only create profit now, but also build a self-sustaining asset that survives the current owner?
Elise Balsillie (27:57):
Absolutely. One of the biggest risks is when the business relies entirely on the owner's personal community connections. It makes selling a much harder proposition. By building out an AI-powered marketing strategy, you can rely on digital platforms to drive leads.
We can score every lead, track conversions, and give owners the levers to dial different channels up or down based on capacity. This allows owners to slowly wind down the jobs that rely purely on personal referrals and dial up new inquiries, generating sustainable growth that doesn't rely on them grinding away as the main salesperson every day.
Michael (29:18):
It's a smart transition. By using those analytics to highlight other areas of the business and promote a great product or team, the owner can step back a bit while the business continues to generate leads independently.
Elise Balsillie (30:00):
Definitely. It's a great way to support an owner during the final stages of their time in the business—lifting it to the next level to facilitate a sale.
Sometimes owners organically wind down because they want to play golf on a Wednesday, so turning the business back into a self-sustaining growth engine makes it incredibly attractive to buyers.
Michael (30:37):
Indeed. Making a knee-jerk decision to sell just because you're having a bad month is the worst thing an owner can do.
What are some core capabilities you think owners should embed into their business so it doesn't fall apart when they step away?
Elise Balsillie (31:22):
It’s amazing how many business owners still operate exactly as they did 20 or 30 years ago—using carbon-copy job sheets that get lost, resulting in unpaid invoices. Owners need the confidence to dabble in automation and modern marketing.
Many invest heavily in marketing but do nothing with the leads that initially say no. By fostering a community and engaging with a tribe of followers, you build a sustainable pipeline that doesn't require paying for Google leads every single week. Automating these processes frees up capacity, allowing owners to finally take that Wednesday off.
Also, many business owners are too humble to ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask a peer at a coffee shop or a trusted provider for advice before you reach the point of total burnout.
Michael (33:29):
That's so true. It's all been done before. The point of this podcast is getting owners to listen to peers who have lived it.
Owners are notoriously independent, and it takes the right person delivering the message in the right way to convince them to change their approach.
Elise Balsillie (34:17):
Absolutely.
Michael (34:18):
Because small businesses need that trusted guidance, where do you see Thryv going over the next five to ten years?
Elise Balsillie (34:43):
We’ve evolved drastically since our roots with the Yellow Pages in the 1800s. From phone books to websites, social media, review sites, and now AI search, the speed of change is incredible. It’s hard to predict exactly where the small business community will be in ten years.
But by deeply understanding the sector, we can adapt our solutions to support them. AI is incredibly exciting right now. You can jump onto Claude or Copilot, ask for the best plumber in an area, and then ask why they are the best. It’s like getting free consulting advice.
The pace of change will be exciting but also scary for many, meaning owners will need strong advocates and partners more than ever to help navigate the complexity.
Michael (36:50):
I'm a huge advocate for figuring out how AI can work in your business. It's accessible and can be transformational, even if you just start small.
Elise Balsillie (37:17):
Exactly. Even if it’s just using AI to polish up a quick email you drafted on your phone so it sounds professional.
That alone saves you from having to sit back down at a laptop to type it out perfectly.
Michael (37:41):
It makes perfect sense. And it's consistent with what we've discussed: you don't need to go all-in right away. There is no silver bullet that will perfectly automate your business in 12 months so you can sit on a beach.
Elise Balsillie (38:01):
Right, there isn't going to be a robot standing at the counter at the dentist's office doing all the work!
Michael (38:08):
Embrace it in small pieces. If you want to sell your business tomorrow, the systems you embed today to make things run smoothly will ultimately make it vastly more attractive for the next owner.
Elise Balsillie (38:42):
Absolutely. It’s like cleaning up your shop and getting it ready to be a truly exciting proposition for a buyer.
Michael (38:49):
You've been around small and medium enterprises for a long time.
What's the biggest lesson you've learned that you would share with other owners if you were put on the spot?
Elise Balsillie (39:02):
I would say: swing the bat and have a crack. A lot of small business owners have big goals, ambitions, and dreams, but they hesitate. They might not want to be so bold or take that next step.
There are always sensible, practical ways to test and try new things. Hesitation can hold business owners back, eventually leading to burnout because they get stuck in a place they don't want to be.
Michael (39:47):
Taking your research back to owners and hosting events where people can share what they've achieved really brings it home.
Owners are definitely open to learning better ways of doing things if the advice comes from the right voice.
Elise Balsillie (40:10):
I agree. Hearing the lived experiences of other business owners who have "been there and done that" is so important.
Bringing that tribal community together to support and educate each other is incredibly valuable.
Michael (40:25):
Excellent.
One final question, Elise. If you were plucked from your current role and dropped into Canberra next Monday morning as the head of Australia's Small Business Department, what are the one or two things you would do on day one to secure small business as a vital part of the economy?
Elise Balsillie (40:49):
I think the volume of red tape small businesses face right now is incredibly difficult. Changes in legislation directly impact business growth, profitability, and their ability to build a scalable, sellable engine for the future. This flow-on effect discourages people from starting small businesses. To build a thriving economy, we need more people willing to "swing the bat."
I have a young son who is a second-year carpenter apprentice. In the years to come, we want an environment where he feels empowered to open his own building company, rather than being hesitant due to red tape. Even basic discussions, like the right to work from home, impact hiring decisions for young grads who need hands-on mentorship. We need to make Australia a place where people genuinely want to start a business and thrive. Who knows—one day they might have a success story like Booth Contracting, with a hundred staff across the country.
Michael (42:40):
He's definitely a champion for doing that, and a big part of the future relies on your son and others taking their trades into their own small businesses. That kind of aspiration is vital.
Look, if someone wanted to reach out to you, what's the easiest way, Elise?
Elise Balsillie (43:00):
If anyone would like more information, please jump across and check out thryv.com.au.
Michael (43:08):
Alright. Thank you so much for your time, and good luck with all the great work you're doing at Thryv. It's been great having a chat.
Elise Balsillie (43:14):
Thanks, Michael.